>> and finally, commissioner, there is an election coming up. the holidays are coming up. lame-duck congress is coming out. what is the fcc's agenda for november and december or will we have to wait for the new year? >> we continue to work. we have deadlines that are independent of what you put forththere are some deadlines. there are the critical communication lead that must be met. decision that must be made. that the fcc will continue to do. we will have -- we will have a couple of days off for thanksgiving and christmas. outside of that, the work continues. in terms of serving the american public and continuing to meet the critical needs of this nation. >> do you foresee a hearing on sandy and it's a facts?

>> i anticipate -- i did not know if it will be at the federal level but in terms of -- i am confident there will be some assessment on a state-by- state level. in terms of looking at what was done and evaluating and making pronouncements as to what we can do better. there will be hearings. i cannot know if it will escalate to the federal level. >> mignon clyburn and paul kirby, this is "the communicators" on c-span. >> our live road to the white house coverage continues tonight. at 8:25, mitt romney and his wife at a campaign rally in

englewood, colorado. then president obama of former president bill clinton speak at a rally in virginia. by beginning at 10:35 eastern tonight on c-span. now, the final virginia senate debate. former virginia governors and square off in one of the closest rates in -- races in the country. courtesy of wsls tv in, west virginia. >> welcome, everyone, to the last debate of this virginia campaign. i am coming to you live from the beautiful campus in virginia. ♪ [applause]

[captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] ♪ >> again, good evening. i am jay warren, your monitor for tonight's debate. joining me also has to be the chairman of virginia tech, and a professor here. behind us is a very lively and enthusiastic southwest virginia crowd filling the theater.

we welcome them and we welcome all of you. not only across all of southwest virginia and the commonwealth, but coming to you nationwide on c-span. tonight is your opportunity to hear directly from the candidates, unfiltered and unedited. it is our hope that this will be a lively hour. one that will explore new ground and forces the candidates to really face the issues that are not only troubling here, but our entire country. you will be able to vote on november 6, making a more informed and educated decision. it is my honor to introduce them to you. in the interest of time, we have asked our audience to only -- to not applaud tonight. only at the end of the bay -- of the debate and at the beginning of the debate.

the former governor and senator of virginia, george allen. [applause] now, the democrat in this race, from richmond, va., a former governor of virginia, tim kaine. [applause] i think i told you we have an enthusiastic crowd. we do. thank you for agreeing to participate in this important debate and participate and put your self out there. we decided everything by the toss of a coin.

the result of that, we will begin with governor kaine. 90 seconds. >> thank you for this opportunity. it is great to be back to virginia tech. i feel close to this community. we have challenges as a nation. the main one is to continue to accelerate the economy and grow jobs. in order to do that, we have to have a congress that knows how to work together. i learned some valuable lessons as mayor and governor. one started here on this campus. in 2008, we were going through what became the worst recession in 75 years. your president, and other university leaders, came and said, times are tough. why do we not do a construction campaign on the state colleges? there was an idea to build a virginia tech school of medicine. i worked together and by the end

of it, we did a $1.4 billion -- that is to revitalize the roanoke economy. it was about jobs, public, private partnership, education, infrastructure. i have a long jobs plan. i just summarize it. democrats and republicans have to work together. that is what is needed in washington. that is how i have governed. that is the u.s. senator i will be if you send me and i have a chance to serve. >> thank you. >> thank you for watching. susan and i have been listening to the people of virginia. they want leaders to work together to get our economy back on the right track, create jobs, stocks washington spending, and restore the american dream. i want to be virginia's senator.

tim wants to be president obama's senator. he went around the country giving partisan speeches. instead of staying home and dealing with economic crisis, tim chose to leave. on every significant issue, he has been for the obama policies that have been hurting virginians. from the harmful energy policies that are devastating communities, to our electric bills skyrocketing. obamacare that is endangering the access of medicare to our seniors. now, this sequestration deal is threatening another 200,000 virginia jobs. in washington, you deserve a strong, independent voice. if i have the honor of serving

as your united states senator, i will work hard to build a society where hard work is rewarded and every american has an opportunity to succeed. >> thank you for those opening statements. we want to get to the questions. you will receive 90 seconds to enter each section -- question. we have a lot of great questions from our viewers. we will be weaving that into these questions. neither candidate or campaign has knowledge or access to any of the questions we will ask tonight. this is your last opportunity state-wide to communicate to the voters. as a result, i want to begin with what i think is the campaign narrative and what has become the criticism for both of you. governor kaine, we will begin with you. you will be president obama's senator kerry you heard it just now.

you are friends with the president. you were the chair of the party at his request. you are touting your working relationship with the senator in virginia. he has voted with the democratic leadership of 93% of the time. how can you reassure the voters tonight? >> let me start with the comment that i will not the virginia's senator. this is the difference between the two of us. i do not think it is anti- virginia and to support the president of the united states. or to support the commander in chief. when i was governor for three years, president bush was president. i worked very closely with him on the response to the tragic suiting here at virginia tech, -- shooting here at virginia tech.

we disagree a lot. in any area we do agree, i consider him a partner. i will always work with the president of united states to be a partner. when george was in the senate, he voted before president bush 96% of the time. no one suggested he was not a virginia senator because he supported president bush. i have had a long track record of serving my community as a non-partisan city councilman, winning accolades for cutting building schools. when i was governor, we were the best managed state for business all four years, and my favorite, education week, the best state to raise a child. i did that by being a good leader and making the kinds of independent choices virginians want.

>> senator allen, you have 90 seconds to respond to what he said. >> he had a choice to make when he was governor. he talked about the economic crisis in virginia. he chose to go around the country, demonizing republicans. he called them corrosive. he called them the downer party, the teabags party. that does not bring goodwill amongst people. when you are the governor of virginia, you have the greatest honor that anybody could be bestowed upon by the people of virginia. he chose to leave and spend his time going around the country raising money and giving partisan speeches and advocating for these policies that are so harmful to virginia, whether it is the energy policies that are devastating southwest virginia communities, or seniors with medicare, we have skyrocketing spending that has us in debt with china, and the sequestration deal.

while tim was going around uncovering funds for the democratic party, he should have been spending time here in virginia on covering funds for our department of transportation. maybe he would not have been shutting down rest areas all over virginia. that is not good management. that is an embarrassment. if he was actually paying attention to his job, he might have found there were over a billion dollars and you could of found about $8 million and not had that and harassment of shutting down rest areas. >> your rebuttal? >> he has a double standard. when he was the senator from virginia for two years, he was the head of the republican campaign committee.

he praised the governor who became the chairman of the republican national committee. he praised governor mcdonald for being head of the republican governor's association last year. virginia is an important state. our leaders are strong. what virginians care about, in 2009, the vote -- four states were singled out and it was said four states have done what it takes. we banned smoking. virginia was ranked number 1. we worked with the bush administration. i recruited the following companies to move their headquarters to virginia. hilton, rolls royce. we made great strides cutting infant mortality.

virginians care about results. in the toughest times since the 1930's, we got results every year i was governor, especially in 2009. >> thank you. the criticism of your campaign has been a lingering question of how will george allen be in a second term and how will that be different? you walked with the republican leadership and the bush agenda. you just heard that from governor kaine. at times, you voted with their party up to 98% of the time. if you are reelected, will you return to that voting pattern or will you espouse a more bipartisan agenda that will actually move forward in virginia and the country? >> i will be a senator for the people of virginia. losing that last election was a humbling experience. you learn from losing and have time to reflect.

and see how things are going in washington and how every vote matters and how they seem to be out of touch with the needs and concerns i hear from people all over virginia. i will be focused on jobs, virginia. that is what is needed in washington. i have worked across party lines. you talk about records? the democrats control the legislature when i was governor. we were able to cut taxes by $600 million. not as much as i would have liked, but we did. tim trying to raise taxes. we also reduced the size of the state work force by 9000. there were over 300,000 net new jobs created. i use all of my time i could for jobs and recruiting investment to virginia. tim was out running around the country advocating for obama's policies as well as raising money and trying to get folks like harry reid and nancy pelosi reelected. when he was governor, over

100,000 jobs were lost. i have worked across party lines. i want to work with republicans and democrats to get this economy going. i think we can find common ground to make sure our tax laws are more competitive and simple. if we do that, i think we will send a message to the world america is open for business again. >> i think what the audience sought is he was asked a question about his senate record and he was talking about being governor. he is running for reelection to the united states senate. he had a fiscal irresponsibility. george came into the united states senate with historic surpluses. we were in great shape. by the time he left, we had massive deficits. he voted to increase the debt by $16,000 every second he was in the senate. he expanded medicare, which was good, but he did not pay for it. he was part of a senate and a house that declared two wars but did not pay for the wars and instead put them on the credit card for our kids to pay.

he made a massive tax cuts to health -- to help the wealthy. he did not pay for them. we went from surplus to deficit. he voted four times to raise his own pay. he voted four times to raise the debt with it, he voted for 52,000 earmarks that totaled $121 billion. even george had to admit, spending was a problem when i was in the senate.

we do not need to go back to it. he is a harsh partisan. he attacked hillary clinton as someone who does not share our values. attacking john kerry. george would not joined a gang to bring senators together. he said, we do not need to compromise. >> your rebuttal? >> john warner and i worked as a team for virginia. i am proud of john warner as a friend and ally. as far as my office budget, we turned back $1.40 million in the six years i served as senate. we showed you can reduce. as governor, i was comparing it because that is a comparison one can make. tim waited two years and cut his by only 5%. when i left the senate, the unemployment rate was only 4.4%. has been hovering around 8% for 44 months. the spine -- the spending, it does need to get under control. there needs to be disciplined. the annual budget deficit was $160 billion.

now, it has been over $1 trillion. it is because of the policies and spending tim kaine has been advocating. you talk about $16,000 per second. it is now $47,000 per second spending. he criticized the tax cuts i reported? 7 million american jobs were created. i am glad we reduced taxes on families and small businesses. >> thank you. our next question goes to governor kaine. >> according to forbes, medicare is scheduled to cost the country $1 trillion annually in the next 10 years. simply put, the rate of growth is simply unsustainable. you have proposed some changes to the system which seem modest. is there something bigger needed, including possibly increasing the age for eligibility for those under 50?

>> thank you for asking. medicare is critically important. it is an important safety net proposal that helps our seniors deal with the cost of medicine. the budget is growing in a very accelerated way. let's start off and say it is growing for a good reason. we are living longer. this is a problem. it is caused by success. but the knowledge that. we have to get medicare costs under control. i have put a plan on the table. when medicare was expanded when george allen was senator to cover prescription drugs, i heartily support that. i think it is great. the congress made two huge errors. they chose not to pay for the expansion. second, they guaranteed pharmaceutical companies they would not negotiate for the prices of prescription drugs. that was foolish. no pharmacy would make that mistake. if we allow the federal government to negotiate for prices with pharmaceutical credit -- companies, and we already do when we buy the same

drugs, we save $25 billion over a year. we should have made that change years ago. we will have more to do. essentially, what we need to do is continue on experiments that are pilot projects under way where we pay in our health-care system for health the outcomes rather than just pay for procedures. we get great procedures and a lot of them. >> to answer your question on medicare, i have proposed a way to make sure medicare is solvent for the future. i believe we need to make sure social security and medicare for current recipients, as well as for generations.

two ideas i think would help. one, a gradual age increase for eligibility. as well as an income adjustment to it. tim criticizes it. i think it makes a great deal of sense that we treat someone with high-priced -- high blood pressure before they have a stroke. there is more competition and choice. seniors to not have to go up hills and worry about whether they have to afford medications. with the competition, it came under budget. as far as obamacare is concerned, he said it is "great for democrats." i do not think it is great for seniors. they are very worried the obamacare approach will raise $700 billion from medicare. we have already heard from someone who has had heart trouble.

he will go back to medical research rather than providing the help to him. he will have to find another doctor. as far as seniors are concerned, while i was governor, we have cut taxes on senior social security benefits and remove the discriminatory tax. tim should explain why he wants to raise taxes on people earning as little as $17,000 a year, including many people on social security and medicare. >> let me talk about senator allen and health care. premiums for american families went up by 80%. he does not have a health care record as a senator, except for voting for the medicare expansion. i said i thought it was a good idea to expand, but i criticize george for the cost to american taxpayers $25 billion a year. why do we not fix that? i am saying we should not be

giving $25 billion a way to form a rigid to pharmaceutical companies. -- a way to pharmaceutical companies. preventative care, reduce price prescription drugs. george wants to repeal the affordable care act, and give it back to insurance companies. that is not my idea of a medicare reform or a health-care plan. >> senator allen, i have a straightforward question. if the bowles-simpson plan to reduce the deficit and balance the budget came in the senate as is, would you vote for it. if not, what is your math to get to the balanced budget? >> i think the bowles-simpson approach was an idea from the president, and the president walked away from it as if it was a dead animal on the front porch. you would think half -- i think what ought to be done, here is my plan that ought to be done for fiscal sanity.

we ought to repeal every obamacare. it is adding one trillion dollars -- $1 trillion in spending. it is hurting small businesses and job opportunities. secondly, tim talks about revenue. the only way to raise revenue is by raising taxes, he thinks. raising taxes would cause more job losses. another way is with a vibrant, strong, healthy economy, where businesses are profiting and people are working. this is what i do like about bowles-simpson.

comprehensive reform. eliminating loopholes of our tax laws. i am proposing in my blueprint a 20% tax, much lower than the world 25%. that would create new jobs a year. another way to get revenues -- if we did that, throughout virginia, there would be hundreds of thousands of jobs created, we would have more affordable fuel and food and electricity, and the federal government would get over $1 trillion in revenues without raising taxes. that is the plan that will get america moving in the right direction. >> i let you go over but you did not answer the question. we have to have a balanced approach for dealing with the budget. you cannot get balance through in balance. -- imbalance. george's approach is to close it as follows.

make all the bush tax cut permanent, even for the wealthiest. now it is getting bigger. then, close the tax all through cuts. if you have to have that big a gap, you will cut deeply into priorities that matter. i have a different approach. let the books -- pushed tax cuts expire. -- bush tax cuts expire. if you do that, you start to close the deductions. i had to do that as governor. i am the only governor in modern times to leave office with a smaller general fund budget and when i started. george's budget went up 45% in four years. i know how to make cuts. an all-cuts approach as he proposes, he said not $1 of revenue for $10 of cuts, the

all-cuts approach that starts with extending tax cut for the wealthiest would hurt our economy, heard our priorities, and hurt virginia. >> just to make it clear, we ought to reform the entire tax code in washington. the bush tax cuts helped to create over 7 million new jobs. what i would like to see is a tax code that is more simple. i think there really is the basis of a bipartisan agreement on the spirit i am abrogating 20%. some people are advocating higher. i think we can get around the table and come to agreement and have a comprehensive tax reform.

tim talks about added spending. we cut state taxes. we promoted virginia for economic development and over 300,000 jobs were created. net new jobs. it is a prime example of the differences tim and i have. i think more jobs, more hiring, more investment is the answer. virginia is the perfect lesson of tim'quangs star years as governor were over 100,000 jobs were lost. while i was governor, we cut taxes, froze college tuition, and over 300,000 net new jobs created. you talk about results, those matter. >> a question was fairly specific. will you vote for the simpson- bowles plan as is. i interpret your answer as a no? >> it should be brought up and work its way through the legislative process. >> would you support it as is? >> i would supported the way i propose our ideas. [laughter]

>> yes or no? >> i would amend it. >> i would support a plan that makes $2 or $3 a cut for every dollar of revenues. that is the way i govern. the particular plan, there are a couple things about and i do not like. i do not think they need to reform social security. it is not contributing to the deficit. >> you are hearing laughter because they are confused. is it no and no? >> as is, we are both saying no. [laughter] >> we have agreement. you will get to ask each other a question in this segment. you will ask a question of senator allen. >> when you were in the senate, one of the votes cast was to begin the privatization of security, giving folks an opportunity to give their contributions into private accounts.

that would weaken the solvency for the current retirees and left to the camp for bidders at the mercy of what happened in the market. our fiscal cliff collapsed two years later, it would have hurt them. would you now agree that was a bad idea? the cost of social security should never be privatized? >> it is important we recognize such as security needs to be solvent for current recipients as well as future generations. i would never for someone. -- force someone. employers pay into it. if people want social security, which most do, that should be the case. we need to make some reforms in social security. the age of eligibility can be increased gradually for those who are younger than age 50, currently or soon on social security, leave it the same.

there should be an income adjustment. that would help the solvency. another thing that will help is jobs. the most recent forecast, it will go bankrupt three years earlier. you dealt in -- delve into why, fewer people are working. people to provide for themselves and their retiring years. it is why i think people ought to be able to use their social security funds or 401k's so they do not have to lose their homes and lose all their assets in the events they need assistant living later in life. i want to make sure social security is solvent for future generations. >> what george did not defend his earlier votes, and he continues to believe it is a good idea.

i will battle against the privatization of social security to and nail. i will tell you why. social security since the 1930's has been designed to help seniors not live in poverty. workers chip in, out of their paycheck, to support a dignified retirement for the people who raised them, their parents, grandparents, people who coached them little league or talk and sunday school. if you allow people to not ship into the social security trust fund but set up their own account, those retirees who are counting on that, have a trust fund that goes insolvent very fast and their retirement is jeopardized. people month -- putting money in their own accounts have a potential problem, too. we saw that when the stock market collapsed. maybe you are a good investor but people do crazy things and

they cause a at -- an international meltdown. what you count on for retirement is gone. the social security program passed in the 1930's has enabled american seniors live not in poverty. options for retirement, that is fantastic. we should never privatize social security and give people to keep it accounts -- in accounts and jeopardize the solvency for the retirement of seniors. >> i want to focus my question on jobs. tim, you supported 3 obama initiatives that our job killers. energy taxes that could cause 66,000 jobs in virginia. obamacare. the devastating for small businesses. and the sequestration deal which is threatening to hundred thousand jobs in virginia. why did you support president obama on these job killing proposals?

>> let's talk about jobs. let's compare our records. you were proud as your record as governor, but you were governor during the clinton years, the biggest expansion of the american economy since world war ii. i was governor during the deepest recession since the 1930's. that was largely promoted by policies you voted for when your in senate. was the unemployment rate higher when i was governor? it was in one measure. let's measure fairly. let's look at fate -- states and rank them best to worst. virginia was doing better, we were nearer to the top in terms of unemployment when i was governor than when you were governor. it was harder to manage during tough times and i was doing it. on the three points you mentioned, i did support a notion to try to control -- you have a different view on signs. you cannot believe human activity of the climate. i think human activity affects climate. we have to find strategies to stop over using our car been used. we can do it.

i work hard to permit a plan that shows there is a cleaner future for coal. that is what i will promote. on the affordable care act, i like seniors having free preventative care. i like 21 to 26 year olds on their family policies. on sequester, i know my time is up. i will save that. >> can thank you. [laughter] >> do i get a rebuttal? >> yes. >> he admitted he did not answer the whole question.

there were tough times when i came in as governor as well. my predecessor had tough times, as well. what we did is not raise taxes. tim, you try to raise taxes on working women, seniors, and people earning as little as $70,000 a year. that does not help make the state more attractive for business. we do have a record. a record of jobs for virginia. you mentioned the same facility. under the regulations i oppose, and if i am in the united states senate, i will stop those -- stop those regulations, by those regulations, that plan could not be permanent. it is a clean coal facility. is a great facility. it is enormous. the reality is the regulations that the obama administration is proposing would not allow that plan to be built under those regulations.

you say, do not fight those. do you know what that will mean? higher electricity and fuel costs, and fool -- and food costs. the people in washington would be proposing this tax that would hurt lower-income people the most. other countries, china, india, russia, brazil, none of them would propose that on their own citizens. it is the kind of approach that american enterprise systems not have to have on them, nor working families. >> thank you. i apologize for skipping your rebuttal the next question goes to tim kaine. you have mentioned that already. you noted president obama us plan calls for them to -- obama's plan. are you saying you would not, under any circumstance, vote for an obama budget or an obama bill that came to the senate that says we will cut the bush tax cuts and let them expire?

>> i think my proposal is the right proposal. i will not vote for of bills that i know have a no chance of passing the house. you saw what happened this summer. they let the bush tax cuts expire over 250,000. full knowledge nothing would happen. the house passed their bill to make the task cuts permanent. they sent it to the senate with full knowledge it would not happen. the time for the no compromise positions is over. we need a compromise. a year ago, i put on the table this compromise. we have to find one, the bush tax cuts are set to expire, and if we do it right, we can avoid defense cuts. if we let the tax cuts expire over $500,000, that raises $500 billion of revenue over 10

years. if we do not come up with a solution, let the bush tax cuts expire, there is have a solution. fix this medicare problem george voted for he would not take back and allow negotiation for prescription drug prices. another $240 billion. let's take away the subsidies that the oil company's debt. they make $135 billion in profits last year. why are we giving them subsidies? now we have a compromise that, instead of $1 trillion of sequester cuts, we have to find $235 billion in savings over 10 years. that is the kind of compromise that can be supported by democrats and republicans. now is the time for compromise. we can do it for the good of the virginia economy and our defense industry. >> tim talks about raising taxes again.

i think it is wrong. to be using the 200 men and women -- 200,000 men and women in virginia whose jobs are threatened by the sequestration deal that i opposed and tim set in debates is the right thing to do. they should not be used as a political bargaining chip to raise taxes on small businesses. president obama said in 2009 that raising taxes in a weak economy is a bad idea. the growth in our economy and gdp is worth -- worst now than it was then. it will always be more harmful. in a recent debate, he said he would consider everyone pay more taxes. that is consistent with him trying to raise state taxes on people earning as little as $70,000 a year. you are wondering, do you realize folks out there are hurting? people cannot afford any more taxes.

people are paying $30 or more more every time they fill up with gasoline compared to january 2009. you start blasting oil companies, and you were ultimately pay the price. it will go on to consumers. i know someone who could only afford $20 of gas. i asked her if she could fill up and get it all. it would cost to $37 more. what would you do? she said, i could provide for my family. these are real people in the real world being hurt. the last thing we need is more taxes on working families. >> george, you stand -- he started by answering i am trying to hold the military hostage to raise taxes. you and i are both fathers. this is very personal to me. [indiscernible] i have a son who has started a career in the military.

i will not do things that will hurt the troops or defense. i will not do things hurting veterans. our veterans services budget doubles because we have work to do to make sure veterans were protected. i was commander in chief of the virginia guard during two wars, and i went to iraq and afghanistan to see those men and women. i went to homecomings and funerals and wakes. i will not do anything that will hurt the defense. i recruited contractors to move to virginia. i put a plan on the table, very specific, a compromise, that will avoid defense cuts. you're only plan is to appeal the affordable care act, which would increase the deficit, then require more cuts. >> this next question, it goes to you, senator. you said we ought to repeal and replace obamacare. in the same answer, he said in

the last debate one of the most popular provisions in this law should be kept. people should stay on their parents' health care until they are 26. that is popular but it has to be paid for. specifically, how would you keep the popular provisions of the health care reform what if you repeal the rest of the law. >> let me finish up on what tim said on the previous and i will get to this. it is very important. i will tell you about holding hostage men and women. >> we are not talking about hostages, george. you used the word hostage. [laughter] we are not talking about hostages. >> let me use the words of the secretary of defense, a democrat. he says if this sequestration deal, it would be devastating to our military. i cannot imagine myself voting

for something that could be so potentially harmful to our military readiness and jobs in virginia. you supported it and said it is the right thing to do. you cannot avoid that the secretary offense -- of defense said this would be devastating. if you listen to defense contractors, it has already affected -- on health care reforms, i think it is better for young people to be on the apparents' policies. -- on their parents' policies. i think we ought to allow small businesses to band together across state lines and get more competition and afford health care. i think we ought to be promoting affordable, reliable, health saving accounts that people can take from job to job.

>> governor. >> we do not need a panel making decisions. >> thank you. saying someone will hold the military hostages is like saying someone is anti-virginian if they support the president of the united states. is the kind of rhetoric we need less of, not more of in washington. on the sequestration issue, let's go back to the deal as it was done. in the summer of 2011, a deal was needed to avert an international fiscal collapse. the deal was not pretty. the alternative was america would default on its credit for the first time ever and we would have an international fiscal collapse. that is why this sequestration deal, although it was not pretty, was supported by john banner, by our governor, a veteran, by president obama, the u.s. chamber of commerce, and by everyone in congress trying to find a compromise. george allen stood outside and

shook his fists and said, we do not want to support a compromise. we did not the fault, we got a bond downgrade. the reason for the downgrade was not the deal. it was that so many leaders light george were willing to stand up and play chicken with american finances. we can avoid these defense cuts. we can only avoid them with a compromise. the only compromise you have heard is repealed be affordable care act. it has already been tried. the has been a two-year litigation in the supreme court. that is not a compromise. >> could you address the mass of how you pay for it if you repeal? >> if we are talking about sequestration, let me point out what we need. [laughter] we need spending caps. a balanced budget amendment. as far as averting these cuts, the house of representatives and others passed a measure in may to avert these cuts. went over the senate.

what have they done? nothing. they have not passed a budget in over 3.5 years. i will tell you a place where we are spending these cuts. i do not think the members of congress should get paid if they do not get the bills done on time. they are passing these continuing resolutions that call on for months. the health saving accounts and employers being able to ban together businesses, there is no great cost to that. people are taking care of themselves. businesses are getting more affordable insurance. as far as 26-year-old on parents' policy, mom and dad will be paying for but it is better for your children to be covered then not covered. >> this goes to mr. kaine. >> with the recent attack of our consulate in libya, and the admission from our administration that this was an act of terrorism, as the obama administration, in your opinion, overstated the degree to which it has slowed or dismantled al qaeda?

>> i think al qaeda remains a very serious concern in different parts of the world. we went to afghanistan to wipe out bin laden and al qaeda. i am happy we have done it. virginia troops are not being deployed so repeatedly now that we are out of iraq and we have been laudable -- bin laden and al qaeda. we need to take the fight to al qaeda where ever they are, yemen, africa, we have to continue to go after al qaeda until all the leadership is gone. the incident in libya was a very troubling one. we need to get to the bottom of it. to find out everything that happened and everything we can find.

i have been asked about foreign debates. when something like this happens, it reminds me of how we work together in the aftermath of that horrible tragedy to get answers and make improvements. you find what happened, you find everything that has been done differently. what virginia tech has done on campus safety has not only made this campus safer, but it has served as a model for other campuses. we need to take the same model with respect to the attacks on libya. get to the bottom of it. find out what went wrong. then do what we need to do to protect our personnel across the globe. the other thing we can do is the house budget will reduce spending for security. i do not think reducing spending on security is a good idea. that is something we have to fix going forward. >> this is an example of what has happened to our consulate and our ambassador being killed and our embassies throughout the middle east, north africa, brought the world, being attacked.

it is why the sequestration deal is not only wrong but it is dangerous. we have to find who was involved in libya. my view is any country that does not protect our embassies ought not get a tennis -- a penny of american taxpayer dollars. $450 billion going to egypt and the muslim brotherhood. i do not think that money ought to be sent because they proved they will be working with us against terrorism, by their trading with our good friend in the middle east, israel, and we need to be unified with israel, shoulder to shoulder with israel, preventing iran from getting nuclear weapon capability. one of the big missed opportunities of this president being quiet when they had the spring uprising and the resolution -- the revolution in iran.

i remember ronald reagan said -- he called the soviet union the evil empire. we should have at least said those in iran who wanted a free and just society. the president kept quiet. i do agree with tim kaine on the issue of virginia tech. everyone should be commended by that response and all campuses are more say. i would like to ask you do you think we ought to be sending -- spending $450 billion? >> in my response, george talked more about sequestered. i want to do the same. we put two very clear visions on the table. we agree we have to stop defense cuts. we have two plans. i say we can avoid defense cuts and keep our economy strong buy these simple three steps.

bush tax cuts expire. reform medicare. take tax subsidies away from oil companies. george's answer to the sequester is to be against it but his only answer is to repeal the affordable care act, which is not a compromise and it makes the deficit worse. i think the balance the budget on both sides of the balance sheet. i reduced taxes, business taxes, utility taxes, real-estate taxes. i took tens of thousands of low income virginians off the income tax rolls. if we need more revenue for the good of the country and defense, i will ask for it. i have the experience of cutting spending, something george allen has never done as senator kerry >> thank you for asking those questions. by the toss of the coin, we have determined 90 seconds for senator allen. >> thank you for watching this debate. you will determine the direction of our country. we do have two different

missions of the future of our country. we have earned various endorsements. i have been endorsed by the u.s. chamber of commerce. virginia voters, veterans vision, the nra. the promise of american dream is at stake right now. if you envision a better future than what we have to endure these days, i invite you to join with us in this campaign. i do not care to talk about republicans versus democrats. everybody who uses electricity should be on our side. anybody who drives a car, unless you like paying $30 more when you fill up, ought to be on albert side. -- on our side. if you think health care decisions ought to made by doctors and physicians and not a panel, you should be on our side.

if you pay taxes, you ought to be with us. if you have a child or want to get work, you should be on our side. our idea is to create more job opportunities. if you care about the future of your children and grandchildren, we welcome you to our side. i ask you all to examine the records of the two candidates closely. if you care about virginia and jobs, i respectfully ask you to allow me to work for you in washington where my job will be to protect yours. >> one of my favorites scriptures is psalm 133, how wonderful it is one brothers are in unity. we say the pledge of allegiance every day to one nation under god indivisible with liberty and justice for all. there is a lot of unity words there.

the problem is while we can act that way, none is more apparent than here in virginia tech in 2011 -- 2007, the way the community pulled together, you did not have to be on campus. you could see it on the tv screens something special was happening. our congress does not know what unity is. we have to put people in congress to do. when john warner, republican, was proud, he led a gang of 14, sediment -- seven democrats and seven republicans. george allen was in the senate. he did not joined a gang of 14. he ridiculed senator warner's efforts and said we do not need republicans to compromise. there is a new effort. the gang of six. democrats and republicans work together. i have pledged to join that gang if i join the senate. george allen has made pledges that would be contrary to everything we are trying to do to come together.

he says thing that -- things like kaine does not support virginia because he supports the president. we need less of that in washington and more people who can build bridges. >> chairman, thank you. let's give them a round of applause. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> thank you to our audience. [applause] again, thank you for holding this off to the end. we have a few seconds left. a feisty debate but a formidable

one. i commend you both for dedicating your careers and lives to public service here in virginia and to advance in the issues you care the most about. let me thank my partner and all of this and the wsls team to pull this all together. i would say you are the most professional, dedicated, passionate group. i am really honored to work with you every day. this would not have been possible without virginia tech. they did a tremendous job and 8 -- they were a great partner. thank you at home for watching and to the audience for participating. with that, do not forget to vote on november 6. good night. >> watch the presidential election results tuesday nights along with key house, senate, and governor races. two campaign